mixing powder PEG

[lilred]

I've been vaping for three weeks and wanted to try DIY so I picked up some PEG from walgreens. Does anyone know how to mix it properly?

[Royal]

If you bought powder, do not use it. This is the wrong stuff.
What you bought is most likely used for constipation.

What you want is Propylene Glycol or Vegetable glycerin. Propylene glycol can be purchased from places like Tractor Supply, or most feed and grain stores. It is used to treat Keotosis in cattle.
Vegetable Glycerin can be purchased at places that sale baking supplies. It is sometimes used in the making of candies.

Either PG or VG is in a liquid form, not powder.

PEG of this nature is not generally used in e-liquids. PEG is Poly Ethylene Glycol. and for medical purposes, what you purchased is most commonly used as a laxative.
Propylene Glycol called PG for short is what is most commonly used in liquid form for e-liquids/ aka smoke juice, or VG which is Vegetable Glycerine.

[Rick]

That's what I thought too.

What is PEG 400?
PEG-400 is a glycol, like Propylene Glycol or Glycerine - it stands for "PolyEthylene Glycol", and the "400" relates to its molecular weight. Being "Poly" it can form molecular chains of different sizes, but 400 is the best consistency for vaping. It is soluble in water, acetone, alcohols, benzene, glycerin, glycols, and aromatic hydrocarbons. Not to be confused with Ethylene Glycol, which is poisonous, PEG is fully approved for pharmaceutical use and is used in a variety products like mouthwash, cosmetics and foods. PEG 400 is strongly hydrophilic. The partition coefficient of polyethylene glycol 414 between hexane and water is 0.000015 (logP = − 4.8 ), indicating that when polyethylene glycol 414 is mixed with water and hexane, there are only 1.5 parts of polyethylene glycol 414 in the hexane layer per 100,000 parts of polyethylene glycol 414 in the water layer.

[Royal]

Yes Sir,
Analysis of some chinese e-lquids have reported to contain some amounts of PEG.

PEG can be in a wide range of molueular weights from 300 to 10,000 daltons The number in the PEG400 for which Rick refers to is the molecular weight of the PEG. The PEG that lilred purchased most likely has a molecular weight of 3350. I suppose you could dissolve some in water and vape it if you really want to, but expect to have to run to the bathroom at any given moment. This stuff is commonly used as a laxative.
I have personally experienced this laxative effect when I was vaping chinese e-liquids. I never realized why this was happening until I read the reports. I personally don't trust Chinese e-liquids or any other product from china for that matter. But that is a different subject.

Polyethylene glycol has a low toxicity and is used in a variety of products.[6] It is the basis of a number of laxatives (e.g., macrogol-containing products such as Movicol and polyethylene glycol 3350, or SoftLax, MiraLAX or GlycoLax). It is the basis of many skin creams, as cetomacrogol, and sexual lubricants, frequently combined with glycerin. Whole bowel irrigation (polyethylene glycol with added electrolytes) is used for bowel preparation before surgery or colonoscopy and drug overdoses. It is sold under the brand names GoLYTELY, NuLytely, GlycoLax, Fortrans, TriLyte, Colyte, Halflytely, MiraLAX, Softlax, ClearLax and MoviPrep. When attached to various protein medications, polyethylene glycol allows a slowed clearance of the carried protein from the blood. This makes for a longer acting medicinal effect and reduces toxicity, and it allows longer dosing intervals. Examples include PEG-interferon alpha, which is used to treat hepatitis C, and PEG-filgrastim (Neulasta), which is used to treat neutropenia. It has been shown that polyethylene glycol can improve healing of spinal injuries in dogs.[7] One of the earlier findings that polyethylene glycol can aid in nerve repair came from the University of Texas (Krause and Bittner).[8] Polyethylene glycol is commonly used to fuse B-cells with myeloma cells in monoclonal antibody production. PEG has recently been proved to give better results in constipation patients than tegaserod.[9]

When I first started out and decided to try and make some DIY, I almost made this same mistake also. I was looking for glycerine and this is the only stuff I found. It wasn't until I was in the check out line, as I was reading the box, that I realized this was not what I was looking for. I quickly returned it to the shelf and after a few more minutes of looking around at walmart, I found the real glycerine, it is in the hand care section at walmart, the walmart brand is called Humco. You won't find it where the hand and body lotions are, it is more in the medical section marked hand care, and is typically hard to spot on the shelf as they are small 6 ounce bottles and usually on the bottom row.



This is very thick and will need to be diluted. I dilute with PG, a 50/50 or 60/40 mix works well. This glycerine sells for about $6.00 for a 6 ounce bottle.
I have used this many times with no problems, but still I recommend the real Vegetable glycerine that is used in food and candies. I believe you can get VG at Hobby Lobby in the candie making section.

Not sure about Walgreens, but If memory serves others have found this Humco type of glycerin at CVS. I believe this Humco type is of a synthetic nature. For me a natural Vegetable Glycerine is preferred.


A popular brand of Vegetable glycerine that is commonly found and used by DIY'ers is from Now foods.




I get my Propylene Glycol from Tractor Supply, or Feed and Grain stores.



PG sells for about $20.00 per gallon.

For the PEG, if it were me, I would just put it away in the medicine cabinet and save it for when I feel I am full of it. Though if you ask my wife, she will tell you I am always full of it.

[Rick]

That's why I posted what I posted and how it was posted. That was snipped from the Totally Wicked site.

PEG powdered form is used to replace moisture in green wood and prevent checking etc... (short strokes here).

When some one asked about it, and I had said no way, wow, what ensued ... would have made the Spanish inquisition look like a cake walk.

PolyEthylene Glycol-PEG-400-60ml

Platinum Ice 54mg - Mixing Juice - PG,PEG-400 or VG

Not saying your wrong here, just saying what is out there. Personally I would rather use the knowns myself.

[lordmage]

i use the rite aid brand myself got it right near the band aids

[Royal]

After shopping around and doing some research I found that PEG400 is cheaper than VG. It cost about $80.00 a gallon, where I typically find VG for around a dollar an ounce.
The only PEG400 I could find is available only in a liquid form, not powder.

Here is some of the info I found on it. It is of course a humectant, just as PG and VG is, which is why vapor is produced.



Polyethylene Glycol 400 - PEG 400 - 1 Gallon






Features

• Polyethylene
• glycol is a condensation polymers of ethylene oxide and water with
• the general formula H(OCH2CH2)nOH, where n is
• the average number of repeating
• oxyethylene groups typically from 4 to about 180. The low molecular
• weight
• members from n=2 to n=4 are diethylene glycol, triethylene glycol and
• tetraethylene glycol respectively, which are produced as pure compounds.
• The low
• molecular weight compounds upto 700 are colorless, odorless viscous
• liquids with
• a freezing point from -10 C (diethylene gycol), while polymerized
• compounds with
• higher molecular weight than 1,000 are waxlike solids with melting point
• up to 67
• C for n 180. The abbreviation (PEG) is termed in combination with a
• numeric
• suffix which indicates the average molecular weights. One common feature
• of PEG
• appears to be the water-soluble. It is soluble also in many organic
• solvents
• including aromatic hydrocarbons (not aliphatics). They are used to make
• emulsifying agents and detergents, and as plasticizers, humectants, and
• water-soluble textile lubricants. The wide range of chain lengths
• provide
• identical physical and chemical properties for the proper application
• selections
• directly or indirectly in the field of;
• • Alkyd
  • and polyester resin preparation to enhance water dispersability and
  • water-based
  • coatings.
  • Antidusting agent in agricultural
  • formulations
  • Brightening effect and adhesion
  • enhance in electroplating and electroplating process.
  • Cleaners, detergents and soaps with low
  • volatility and low toxicity
  • solvent properties.
  • Coupling agent, humectant,
  • solvent and lubricant in cosmetics and personal care bases.
  • Dimensional stabilizer in wood working
  • operations
  • Dye carrier
  • in paints and inks
  • Heat transfer
  • fluid formulation and defoamer formulations.
  • Low volatilie, water
  • soluble, and noncorrosive lubricant without staining residue in food and
  • package
  • process.
  • Mold release agent and
  • lubricant in fabricating elastomers
  • Paper coating for antisticking, color
  • stabilizing, good gloss and
  • free flow in calendering operations.
  • Plasticizer to increase lubricity
  • and to impart a humectant property in ceramic mass, adhesives and
  • binders.
  • Softener and antistatic agent for
  • textiles
  • Soldering fluxes with good spreading
  • property.
• Polyethylene
• glycol is non-toxic, odorless, neutral, lubricating, nonvolatile and
• nonirritating and is used in a variety of pharmaceuticals and in
• medications as
• a solven, dispensing agent, ointment and suppository bases, vehicle, and
• tablet
• excipient.

As noted in red above, molecular weights above 1000 are waxlike polymerized solids. Do you want to vape this?


But the question still remains, lilred bought PEG in powder form. We have no idea what this powdered form is. So until more is known about what it is she acutally bought, regardless of the molecular weight of her powder, I still say do not use it. Best to be safe than sorry. And I will stick to VG and PG, as too little is known about what happens to PEG400 or PEG of any molecular weight when it is vaporized. If any analysis has been done to the vapor produced from PEG400 I would be very interested in reading it.

We already know that VG though considered non toxic, can become toxic if it reaches a certain temperature. I can't remember what that actual temperature is, But I do remember that our atomizers under normal use, do not reach this critical point of toxicicity.

[Rick]

I hear you Royal and support/endorse what you have said. Prior to vaping this is all I knew about PEG

Polyethylene Glycol (PEG) - Lee Valley Tools

• PEG is used to fully stabilize green wood. Used soon after the wood has been cut, it enters end grain rapidly and edge grain more slowly; best results are seen with end-grain cuts.

• PEG remains as a waxy coating inside cell walls, preventing them from shrinking, expanding, or collapsing. Two types are available.

• PEG 1000 has a molecular weight of 1000. At room temperature the solid block has a firm, waxy consistency. It melts around 98°F (37°C). PEG 1450 has a higher molecular weight and its flaked form is easier to dissolve. It takes a bit longer than PEG 1000 to fully permeate and stabilize the wood cells, but it has a higher melting temperature (110°F or 43°C) and is less subject to bleeding at high temperatures or high humidity. Both types use the same mixture ratios (makes one gallon at 50% solution).

• To finish wood treated with PEG let the object fully dry; complete any sanding, carving and routing; apply a penetrating oil finish or, for a glossy finish, an epoxy polymer.